Thursday, March 5, 2009

Atheism: Reflection

So, I wrote the post on where I stand religiously. I opened the door - knowingly - and my life has changed. I have to say - I was really happy to have so many people reach out to me to comment about what I had to say - either through a blog comment, Facebook comment, or email (I received a ton) - but I was taken aback a little by how many negative comments I did receive. All in all, I have regret now - and that's hard for me to deal with. Because I'd like to live in a world where I can say what I feel - what I think - and even if you completely disagree with it - I can be respected and given a chance to discuss any topic openly. Most people were clear that they would see me differently but were respectful of where I stand on religion - others, not so much.

In reading back what I wrote, and evident by the comments I received, I struck a few very sour notes - the "weak" statement and the statement about "everyone being an Atheist" really hit home for most people. I understand that someone's religion is about as close to a person as anything - it's like family. No one comes out and says something mean about someone's kid or anything - so I get that it was taken to heart. Again, in looking back, my tone was angrier and more negative than I would have liked - and I have decided to put this additional post out there to address some of the things I've received and to provide a little more insight into how I feel. It is important for me to continue this conversation and not let it end where it stands now.

It became clear to me that people perceived my view as a righteous one - and that is absolutely not how I feel. I have complete respect for people of faith - I actually believe in my heart that people who do believe and do pray live a better life than me. They have something that guides them - they have more hope and strength - in times of sorrow, pain and in times of happiness as well. I think people get more out of life who feel connected to a religion - especially if it involves a community or service. I wish I had more faith - I really do.

But I don't. I do have a lot of spirituality - I believe in the soul and that when we die, our soul does not die. I believe that there are many forces that control our lives and influence decisions we make or are capable of making - I believe in supernatural events and I believe that we will never be able to explain everything that happens between us or why things happen. However, I don't believe in a theistic God - where man was made in his image. I don't believe in organized religion based on the bible or other religious literature. I don't believe that there's a force/man/person/thing somewhere that created man, listens to our prayers, and makes decisions on our behalf - in the past, now or ever.

I understand why people believe. In addition to the many benefits religion provides, there is a basic human need for it. I don't think we, as the human race, could ever live without it - nor will we. From the beginning of time - humans have believed in a God or many Gods. I don't think that will ever change nor am I pushing for that change or think we'd be better off for it. In fact, I think religion is expanding even more - beyond the walls of an organized "church". People are taking what they want from their religion and leaving behind a little more of what the masses are doing. That is a great thing to me because it becomes more likely for people to get more from their faith and practice than just going through the motions (unfortunately, as many do).

I know many people that hold their religous beliefs extremely close to their heart. Religion guides their lives - I know for many of these people, no matter what I write on being atheist, they will not understand me deep down - they will feel that I have no right to attack their belief system or place judgement. Again, I want to be absolutely clear here - I'm not judging. If it came across that way, I deeply apologize. I don't think you're wrong for believing and as I've said many times, I don't think I'm better off.

However, at the same time, what I stated in my blog is what I truly believe. I did not write it for shock value though I can see how it would be perceived that way. I admit that I may be wrong and may change my mind one day (I never, ever claimed to be absolutely certain and unwavering in my beliefs or opinions on almost anything - we all evolve over time - I'm still doing so) - and I accept others for disagreeing. I really do believe, though, that if a person stopped their current line of thought - spent time (months, years even) breaking down the walls that have been put up - either by society, the community, family or themselves - and looked at the facts - stacked up each religion against each other, the assumptions and statements made in scriptures - the enormous list of contradictions between faiths and intra-faith - tried to evaluate and understand what the "church" tells you - looked at the hypocrisies (Again, I have no intent to bash a specific religion - but one quick example would be the Christian church - for telling you thou shalt not kill or judge - but Christians went out and killed many, many people mercilessly: a quick reference http://www.markhumphrys.com/christianity.killings.html), the abuse of power - the corruption - I think if any person found a true independent perspective, that they would see things differently. I think the argument against religion becomes much clearer - to me, overwhelmingly so - but that's why I am where I am now. I've taken this journey there. I called people weak for not taking the journey because I think many people are scared to do it - it's not easy - it's draining, painful, and in the end - you will put yourself to the test. You will challenge what's at your core - and if you end up where I did, you won't be any better off for it. So why do it? I ask myself that question all the time. Like I said, I often wish I hadn't.

I think if you can look me in the eye and say you've taken the journey and still believe what you believe - that you stand where you stood before you did this - than I applaud you and I'm happy for you. As I've said, at that point, I still have a very difficult time seeing things the way you see them - I would agree to disagree with you. If you have no interest in taking the journey, it's your right - it's not my place to tell you to do it. In my mind, most people have not taken this journey nor will they ever do it. Again, it's human nature.

There's nothing wrong with people being in a different place than me - I welcome it and I've thoroughly enjoyed some of the great conversations I've had with people of faith - in the past, and especially now that I've opened the door. I enjoy reading about different religions - I'm fascinated in what people believe and why and I constantly try to learn more about the topic. This will continue to be an interest of mine throughout my lifetime - and my view of things may be drastically different over time than it is now as I continue to learn and explore my faith and others'.

My intent in my original post - and hopefully clearer now - is that I wanted to share my religious views - my take on the world. I think I'm not alone in what I think and feel - I'm not afraid to be different - and like other topics on this blog, I wanted to get deep into things that matter. I WANT to discuss religion - we all should have the right to say how we feel, what's important to us, what we believe, and share the dialog with others. If your religion is very private to you, I respect that as well. Don't participate - it's completely optional. Remember, it is MY blog - I'm not going around knocking on doors and making you read it. I would LOVE for you to contribute to the conversation, as many of you have - either through comment, email or chat in person.

Our society is so tight - we all hold so many things too close - there's too many taboo topics. Religion has clearly been on the top of many lists forever - it's probably at the very top of my families' list - along with politics. It makes me sad that when the conversation starts on it, that people are judged - that people are perceived differently because there's a lot of intolerance out there. Too many people cast off others for not seeing things the way that they see it. THAT is judgmental. I judge no one other than myself. It's not my right or my intent. But now, as I've opened the door, I've been judged and will continue to be judged by others. I can't control their thoughts or their ability to deal with how I feel about something that is so sensitive and close to them.

I realize these posts have opened the door to a place that I hesitated going for years. As I stated at the beginning of this post, I regret doing it at this point. As I said, I will be seen differently from now on - it makes me sad but it is true. And I only hope that the people that care and respect me can try their best to understand what I believe, why I believe it, and what my intentions were in sharing it. The ball is in your court now, not mine...

To everyone - thank you.

11 comments:

  1. I appreciate your honesty and reflection. And I agree with you-- especially paragraph 4. Also, the journey you mention, the spiritual journey some people are brave enough to take can very well lead some in totally opposite directions. Simply by laying oneself bare, by looking at the world and what they have been told with newborn eyes, a person can emerge with new beliefs that are truly their own. I encourage everyone to take the time to listen to this interview I heard on Fresh Air yesterday:

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=101389895

    It adds a great deal to this conversation.

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  2. "I believe in the soul and that when we die, our soul does not die." - Not atheism

    "I believe in supernatural events" - Not atheism. Because if you don't believe in god and the garden of Eden, the virgin birth etc etc. how you still believe in "supernatural events"

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  3. Technically, no atheism by definition is "the doctrine or belief that there is no God; a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods". I don't believe in God, yet I still do believe that my soul does not die when my body dies. I also do believe in supernatural events and that there is much more to the universe that what we've identified as "natural" - elements that we can perceive with our 5 senses or prove scientifically. I realize that many atheists are also skeptics and dismiss my stance on these other things - that's fine. But I'm not incorrectly classifying myself as an atheist.

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  4. The belief in "supernatural events" is completely divorced from the idea of theology. There is a huge difference between believing in a God vs. believing in the supernatural. Supernatural events are not necessarily conducted by a "higher power." You can totally be an atheist and still believe in the supernatural.

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  5. Perhaps the best strategy for addressing the issue of "who is right", isn't telling others what you believe in order to tell them that they are wrong (which is the truth in what you are doing, despite the fallback "it's just my opinion" - I mean we don't want to be isolated and alone in life, we want others to be like ourselves, right?). Perhaps the best strategy is to focus on the concept of proof.

    "Proof in God, that ruins the whole purpose of belief!"

    Untrue. Belief is meant to be the motivating force, not the doctrine itself. In the scientific laboratory, proof (and thus, truth) is the only thing we seek. Sometimes we try to prove that we are right in our thinking, and other times we seek to prove others are wrong. But the methods are the same, the only difference is the motivation, or the 'belief'.

    I think that we share views on spirituality. I have no time for talking snakes, walks on water, or edicts from a time in history replete with slavery, inequality, pain and suffering per capita that I suspect far exceeds the average human today, thanks in no small part to the indomitable scientific spirit of rational human beings. I however just can not buy into atheism either, as it seems just as closed-minded as the most literal bible reader. I think its far safer to admit that we just don't know what happens after we die, and that we don't know if there are forces at work well beyond our current levels of comprehension. It seems to me that whether you follow the spiral inwards or outwards, there is always more and more to be discovered, ad infinitum.

    But I also crave purpose, the true tonic of religion. Without it, I have a hard time fighting the battle of life. A soul-less organism seems of little or no consequence to teh grand scheme of creation.

    How am I to reconcile these two seemingly opposing views? I say that knowledge and the pursuit of truth, no matter what that truth may be, is the only way I can have not only a purpose, but a meaningful one. The pursuit of truth requires the pursuit of indisputable proof, and thankfully we have a pretty template for that as a species in our scientific method.

    While proving God exists (or does not exist, depending on your belief or motivation), seems to me to be the best way to work together toward answering the questions that we all have, without the wasteful redundancy.

    However, this does require relinquishing many of the most ridiculous tenets of most religions, namely that "they are right because somebody wrote a few words down thousands of years ago". That is no easy task, but is seems to be the first step to take in working together to actually discover the truth, something I believe that all humans inherently lust for, despite any dogmas that may have been indoctrinated in our travels through life.

    A religion based on science, DYNAMIC in it's content, getting us closer and closer to ultimate truth. Working together as a species.

    If you are a Tue Believer - walk through the internet, see how we are evolving as humans as our communication strategies constantly change, and you can plainly see that God is dying. He cannot be saved by holding onto old books and pointing fingers at others, He can only be saved by communicating with Him.

    If you are a believer in humanity versus a god of some sort, realize that that are very possibly aspects of our consciousness that we are completely ignorant of. Recognize that complete condemnation of spirituality is extremely baseless.

    Our knowledge increases every time a more powerful super collider is built, every time we gain new understanding in the chemical and protein expression profiles of our brains, every time a child looks through a telescope while being told that we don't know what is really out there.

    At any rate, I guess my view is that if we are going to be non-believers for humanity's sake, we might as well be productive about it. That takes communication and effective collaboration, and time.

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  6. Sorry you got a lot of crap from people about your other post. Although there were a few things that I disagreed with you, on know it was more the "words" I disagreed with than the intent behind them. Except for that pesky supernatural part, oh, and the soul thing, we pretty m uch agree with each other. hehe.

    I am sad that people say they look at your differently, because I'm sure you are expected not to look at others differently for their belief in a God, so I would think you could at least be given the same respect.

    The one main thing that I disagree with in your new post is this "I actually believe in my heart that people who do believe and do pray live a better life than me". I know you said specifically "me" so you weren't talking about all atheists, but no way, no day do I believe that someone with faith has a better life than me. I LOVE my life, and I know you love yours, and I don't know if I really believe you. 8-). But maybe you mean it.

    I think there are a whole slew of reasons people have and embrace religion. It might be nothing more than family tradition, it's all they know! It might be that they reached a horrible low in their lives, and "found" God. It might be none of those things. I think there are weak people who need "something" and then religion is that something they find. Not all, but some.

    The one thing that is most freeing about not believing in God is only having to answer to myself, my family, my friends, and my fellow man. I can make up all decisions for myself, and not worry that God agrees or disagrees with me. I don't have to hate gays because the Bible said so. I don't have to believe in creationism because thats what the Good Book says. I enjoy the freedom of coming to my own conclusions (right or wrong) about everything I believe in. Some people prefer to have a lot of the answers presented to them in the form of religion. To each his own. I believe that some of us are just "wired" that way, and no matter how much we try, we just CAN'T believe. That's me. I think it's you too.

    Anyway, great posts! Love the conversations! And keep it up ... if people are angry about it, let 'em be angry. You are more than entitled to your beliefs and opinions ...

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  7. I applaud you for putting such personal and open comments out there. It is not easy. I have my agreements and disagreements with what you have said in your last two posts... far too much to post in a comment. Perhaps one evening we'll have the chance to discuss.
    Keep writing.

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  8. Faith is a euphemism for prejudice and
    religion is a euphemism for superstition.

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  9. If God is all-powerful, why did he take 6 days to create the universe, resting on the 7th? Why didn't he just snap his proverbial fingers and create everything all at once, and not need rest afterwards? Doesn't sound so all-powerful to me.

    If God knows the future, why does he make mistakes? He should have known he would regret the flood, and that Sodom and Gomora would be full of sinners, etc.

    Why does God need to be "served", and why can't we do it from heaven?

    Yes, we have free will, but God already knows who will sin, who will accept Him, etc., for all eternity (since he has perfect knowledge of the future). Why then, are we here? Why not just send our souls to Heaven or Hell, depending on what he knows we'll do?

    Why does God care if he is praised? He is this all-knowing, super being, why does he care if we mere humans give him credit for creating the universe?

    How can you justify the fact that this merciful, loving god is sending all non-Christians to Hell, no matter how good they are? Even those from before Christ was born went to hell. However, terrible people, including Hitler and Jeffrey Dahmer, could go to Heaven if they repented before death.

    Why does this wonderful, forgiving God hold Adam's sin over all our heads? Why must we all pay for this by being permanent sinners? If God was so pissed, why didn't he just kill Adam and Eve and start over? Again, this is God's choice, so they're going to have to explain why God CHOOSES to hold this incredible grudge.

    Where did God come from? How did he get created? Why is it a valid argument to say that He "always existed", but an invalid argument to say the same thing about matter and energy?

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  10. From the AP: "More Americans say they have no religion"

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090309/ap_on_re/rel_religious_america

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  11. hello
    i really liked your respect to people
    and thnx for posting tht topic with ur honstly

    u said :I actually believe in my heart that people who do believe and do pray live a better life than me.
    and u said tht u wish to had had more faith
    i wants to say
    u really can get it ,just u didn't get the right time yet
    or maybe u r not looking at it in the correct place
    dear DarkRiderNine and all people here
    do u know why we existed ?
    who gave us here?
    why we are in live?

    and why didn't u believe in God?
    everyone whatever he is he believes in death

    so wht after it?
    do u r really feel free?
    i don't think so
    i ask evryone here tht questions :

    do u know anything about Islam?
    i am talking about the true Islam not wht u saw in tv and some of media

    didn't anyone here ask himself honestly why the islam its the most crowing up religion in the world?

    yes More ppl say they have no religion
    in the same time loot of ppl converting to islam everyday
    just u put coverted to islam in google or youtube and see wht u will find and how many one u will find

    don't u think thy have got wht thy where looking for ?
    don't u think thy get the answers of thire quotations ?

    yes in islam u can get the answer of any questions u have
    just u turn on ur mind and try to know the real Islam
    i have a small book
    and i ask evryone here to read it

    http://sites.google.com/site/bily4bcorp/Home/ABriefIllustratedGuideToUnderstandingIslam.pdf?attredirects=0
    just read it and i can give give u the ansers of wht i asked above, and i have the prooves of it and loot of thinks
    sorry for my bad English
    but i really wanted to share tht hot and wonderful discussion
    thnx alot to all and sorry again

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